Fly on the Wall: January 17, 2015
On the line:
Ben (S0), Billy (Mr2), Trevor (Star0bserver), Tony Rango
We have had some terrific 0bservers writing transcripts of the previous FOTWs, but that is too much to ask of anyone. Let’s see if we can get some good notes on these topics for the space below – those who have trouble hearing the podcasts will appreciate the effort.
Part 1: This video is based on a BBC Documentary that can be seen here.
Part 2: GMOs, Climate, Solar Cycle 25 Prediction
Putin GMO Link, JoanneNova Article Link, Christy and Spencer Link, Thermometer Change Link
Part 1 – by 0bserver Jan (thank you)[Ben] Well, we sent around that link on Earth’s magnetic field, that BBC Documentary; about the magnetic field going away, and the Earth being in the middle of a Pole flip. What’s amazing is how much information that video gave us.
[Ben] What’s amazing is how much information that video gave us, while at the same time making more errors than I could shake a stick at. They got the timing of the field’s appearance wrong . The generation of the field and the direction of the field are questionable. They are going with a 10% lost field number, actually when it’s the European, the ESA told us 15%. Sometimes you wonder how much these people actually understand about Electricity when you’re listening to them talk about this feedback loop of Earth. But, at the same time, that gave us a lot of interesting information.
[Billy] Yah, it did. That was incredible. Well, I think most of the theory they had was wrong in my opinion. But the results from these are pretty much accurate in my opinion – some of the things they said would happen.
[Ben] I thought their bit on Mars was interesting. How Mars once had an atmosphere, Mars once had oceans, and it had a magnetic field 20-30x stronger than the Earths. And, this has helped them develop the hypothesis that magnetism and life are very clearly linked. Their saying it could mean really scary stuff if there’s a magnetic problem on your planet, you know, extinction wise – and that’s what we’ve seen before. I don’t remember if it was magnetic field in trouble, or super flood, but in one of those videos we showed examples, scholarly articles detailing how major extinction events on Earth are really tied to these magnetic reversals as well. So, I thought that was really interesting.
[Billy] Yah. Well looking at Earth’s Magnetic Field loop, I found a little short movie here that shows it back from the 1600’s until now. How they explain in the documentary about how the magnetic fields will pop up, the North and South magnetic fields will pop up in different locations before the actual flip happens, and when you look at this, it really does start happening around the early 1800’s. These anomalies start popping up – like the South Atlantic anomaly. And now we have we have a multitude of magnetic anomalies around the planet.
[Ben] Right. There are some really important bits of information in the video. First of all, Billy, I don’t know if you caught this, but around 10:55 they show the Valles Marinaris, and they have thunder and lightning in the background which I thought was a really nice touch. The stuff in like the 19:00 minute and the 20:00 minute about how electric currents drive the magnetic field; and the magnetic field drives the currents, and it’s a completely internal process – that’s the kind of stuff I would tend to ignore. Although, it was nice to see them discussing electric currents in the core generating the magnetic field. it’s a good step in the right direct. But, the real important part of that video was somewhere around the 33:00 or 34:00 minute where they start showing their mathematical model of the magnetic reversals and how Earth is really matching that. It reminded me of the Sun, because when the Sun goes into its reversal process, you see these magnetic regions that sort of pop up on the Sun and don’t sort of belong on that side of the hemisphere. We call them the Sun Spots, or at least they’re one’s that oppositely polarized of that polar magnetism for that part of the cycle. They even used the phrase ‘magnetic fields loop back down through lower latitudes when the field is fading and poles are reversing,’ which is something we’ve talked about with the Solar Polar fields, relating to the Umbral fields of Sun Spots. But, it really reminded me of the processes we watch on the Sun as well. And Billy, like you said, all of the signs; and we’ve mentioned this before – the magnetic field always is in flux, the poles are always moving a little bit. But, when there’s a reversal, they really begin changing a lot together – that’s what they said, they’ve confirmed yet again is happening. These sort of blobs, these anomalies of incorrect magnetism which are tell tale signs that we are going into a full reversal and loss of the fie ld have already begun. One of the them is the South Atlantic Anomaly and that’s the one they point to. But, if you’ll notice, do you see how many other ones there were? There are a bunch of these things that will turn into the ‘mini-poles’ eventually. There will be multiples of these all over the planet, and so the field itself will be weaker, and it will be funneled into these mini-poles at different points all around the globe.
[Billy] They also explain how these mini points will have a lot more cosmic ray activity, not only cosmic ray, but solar radiation to. Influxes in these areas and people will have to learn to live in areas like this. Another thing that startled me was the 90% loss of magnetic field would shrink our atmosphere – from breathable (about 14km down to about 2km breathable air tropheus). This would put a lot of the mountain ranges up in the stratosphere layer outside of our atmosphere.
[Trevor] You’d have to almost go underground to survive an event like that and to be protected from cosmic rays.
[Billy] Not only that, but this also brings the ionosphere at that same ratio.
[Ben] And a lot of coupling events. You know, I’m willing to bet that when the ionosphere is that low Billy, the coupling events between ionosphere and the lithosphere or the ground – aren’t those slow plasma discharges – I’d bet you’d have a chance for some arcing …..
[Billy] Oh, absolutely
[Ben] Thunderbolts… from the Gods.
[Billy] You have this vacuum situation where the area becomes a lot more conductive.
[Ben] You know, I figured out actually why they made some of the mistakes that they did in this video – even though the U-Tube channel where we saw it posted, posted it in 2014. I think the video itself is a little bit older than that, which is why they’ve got an old number for percentage of the field lost. But, what’s interesting is I think that their most important error was saying that we could be seeing this happen by the next millennium it could be over. Which would be virtually nothing on geological time scales. But, we have since had a number of papers discussing how these things can actually happen very rapidly, and they can happen as quickly as 80/years.
[Billy] Well, yah. [Ben] I was going to say, if they were going off of 2002 or 2003 numbers for the field movement, they’re missing a lot because the 2010 update really shows that we only have decades left. Not centuries, and we might not even have decades left. Dr. Chapman who we talked about a little bit previously (formerly of MIT) said that, ‘once you get down to a certain amount of weakness the field just sort of rapidly decays.’ Even in this video they say that once this thing really gets going, the poles can move at 6/degrees a day. That’s ridiculous.
[Billy] Yah, yah, that’s sour apples. What was incredible about that was the entire thing according to them takes about 3,000 years for the entire reversal to happen. But, as you stated, these core data that they drilled, and these layers of salt – they actually drilled several cores in on layer and found that over a 10/day period (which is what time it takes for that salt to cool) that the field had flipped 60/degrees. That’s like 6/degrees a day.
[Ben] Yah, I find their characterization of the duration of flip very miss-leading, because they say, ‘oh, it could take a 1,000 years for this to happen, or 3,000years’; but that included multiple reversals back and forth, and that was an extended period of time when the field was weak. If the field goes down to only 5% of its strength for the next 500/years, the fact that it takes 500/years for the reversal to complete really doesn’t concern you because you are already at the point where you have a weakened magnetic field, the atmosphere is collapsing, you’ve got potential for thunderbolts from the Gods coming down as a coupling mechanism between the ionosphere and the lithosphere. All of the space weather induced disasters amplified. It’s the kind of stuff that they once wrote about. It’s one of those kinds of videos were you have to kind of pull out the diamonds and then just forget the fact that they don’t necessarily understand why things are happening the way they do, but some of their observations are pretty undeniable and they make some logical conclusions from them. I thought it was a pretty good video.
Part 2[Ben] We’ve got a couple of things to talk about today. I want to jump right into it with some of the GMO articles that we’ve brought up. We saw that just in the last few days these labeling Laws for genetically modified organisms are under attack in some States. There are other States that are just trying to bring them into light now. And, I was wondering if you or anybody else thought that perhaps even just the publicity that this fight could create may actually help the cause of creating an awareness about the importance of organic foods and things like that. Simply because, even if they spend $100,000,000. and win all these lawsuits, but if it makes news everywhere, do you think that people – that everyone’s aware of how important this issue is, and they just kind of figure, well they either ignore it, or can’t afford it, or they just don’t buy into it. Or, do you think that there is really a lot of room for informing people here. Do you think the publicity could help people ‘get on their horse’ to maybe do some research about this. Or, are we expecting too much of people there?
[Trevor] I think we’re expecting too much.
[Billy] Yah, Yah. It’s really a fine line there. It’s going to make – the more aware people are going to look harder, and those asleep are just going to sleep further. But, yah, I agree, there’s no such thing as ‘bad publicity’ in my opinion. Everything – it, you know, all depends on the person receiving it, how they take it.
[Trevor] I’ll throw out two thoughts on this. One is that, do you see what Russia just did in making criminal liability for GMO’s, which is Hugh to politics.
[Ben] No, I didn’t see that, what happened? Could you ah,…
[Trevor] I’ll find a link. Basically, Putin just signed a Law, creating liability for anyone damaged – I’ll have to see what the specifics are also, I’ll find it and send it to you.
And, the second point is that GMO labeling is compromised. What they would really fear is the Ban. And, they fight the Bans, they are really going after Hawaii and areas that have actually Banned GMO’s. I would say GMO labeling is compromised, then people could stay asleep and not care if it’s labeled or not.
[Ben] That’s interesting, To me, you make a very good point, and it’s well taken. I think that in some respects they are of the opinion that if they have to start labeling things, it will bring the issue into people’s minds when they read it. Maybe then people will make some sort of conscious decision to eat organically. But, if that is at all part of the case, then fighting a bit public battle on the topic essentially does what they were trying to avoid happening in the store aisles themselves – which happens when people are watching the news or reading the paper, or browsing the internet looking at articles and things like that. I do recognize where you’re coming from though when you say that maybe we’re asking too much of people. I assume we’re talking – like me, you’re talking about people in general. The people who are still asleep and not really up on the day-to-days with these things.
[Tony Rango] And, labeling is really the only recourse that we have at this time if Monsanto’s under a ‘Protection Act’ in the United States so we can’t sue them for any damages or health issues from eating contaminated crops.
[Trevor] But you could condemn them thought.
[Billy] Yah, that’s where I stand to. I believe that what they’re doing overall is trying to save a humanity in my opinion they should still be held ‘highly accountable’ for their action, regardless of…………
[Ben] To clarify this, Billy, you mean that if it wasn’t for Monsanto, there would be millions of people dying of starvation in Africa that kind of thing.
[Billy] Yah, at this point, absolutely. No question about it, what else would they eat? We’ve burned our corn
[Ben] We’ve mentioned that before if you have a choice between letting somebody starve itself today or giving them a piece of GMO food, for God’s sake give them the food.
[Tony Rango] Yah, but they reject that food. They don’t want GMO in their Country, so they reject GMO fruits even though they are a starving country they still won’t take the fruit.
[Ben] I didn’t know that. Who’s rejecting the food?
[Trevor] It’s common practice through a lot of Third World Countries – one’s that know about GMO products that it gets rejected. That’s a myth that it provides more food, that’s not the case at all. If you research into that how GMO production does not increase food production at all.
[Billy] I couldn’t argue there. I belong, I have worked on farms here pretty much on and off to mile 11, I contest that Genetically modified seeds do produce way more yield. It they didn’t, they wouldn’t be buying them.
[Ben] I’ve stayed at a lot of farms actually on this tour – probably 11-or-12 different family farms. The is one I remember in Wisconsin where they had the crops they were selling, and they had the crops that they ate themselves. The crops they ate themselves were the organic corn, the organic sweet corn and then behind that were enormous rolls of the GMO corn. And, it’s just amazing because to grow the organic corn, to grow the sweet corn that’s organic, they had to have this really beautiful soil down beneath it, but they were less than half the size of the GMO corn stalks. And, the corn stalks, I swear to God, they were growing out of sand. It looked as if they were growing out of absolutely nutrient less dirt. Unfortunately that’s what we’ve turned a lot of the farmland into these days.
[Trevor] Well, that’s what you’re eating to, those nutrient less foods. It may be growing faster, but it’s not as healthy for you. What your able to actually absorb out of the yield or the plant.
[Tony Rango] We had good cross pollination on seed before GMO’s came across. And, we had a good yield and production on the seed, that’s why putting more bacteria strands of GMO, genetically modified organisms for that purpose to put more pesticides on it, more herbicides.
[Ben] You know Trevor, you make a really good point there, that in a world where even the definition of ‘organic’ is changing by the year. Which means you have to be every vigilant with just ‘what is organic’. There are only really certain genetic modifications that we’re really worried about. Right? For example, the cross pollination stuff; let’s say that you’ve got this one batch of crops that really resists cold weather and you’ve got this other crop that really is able to grow tall, and you try to mate those two crops – that’s technically tampering with the natural genetics. But, that’s not the kind of thing we’re talking about being worried about. We’re talking about inserting different DNA into the crops and things like that, yah.
[Tony Rango] Yah.
[Trevor] Not to mention the amount of glycosphate that your applying to the GMO crops, and that’s increasing, so it’s a massive amount of chemicals that you’re ingesting.
[Billy] I have a little insight into these people some others may not have. A few years ago, well a few I say, probably about 15/years ago, Monsanto took over Dekath Genetics here in South Georgia and they built a facility in ________ County, and we had the contract to do the air conditioning. We all had to go to orientation meetings. The first orientation meeting that we went to with Monsanto, the very first thing I noticed when we pulled in, was they had roped off (yellow tape) all the Oak Trees in that area. They would not allow any vehicle to park under an Oak tree. There’s the oils and fuels that leak out of that could damage the tree. So, I’m not kidding, these people really are into what they do. And, again, this comes to a matter of perspective of whether you think it’s good or evil. These people think they are doing the right thing. Whether they are or not is a matter of question – of perspective. However, the entire thing, the entire orientation program is all about that type of thing. Do not park under Oak Trees. I thought it was pretty incredible, but these little things catch you eye. These people really do care, you know. But, then you go into some of the things they do, you disagree with how they go about it, and this, that, and the other – it’s, it’s Corporate.
[Ben] There’s a big difference between the PhD chemist’s working in the labs and the Board of Directors and the Officer’s of the Company, and where their loyalties lie and what they are trying to accomplish. We touched on this a little bit ago with the Power Structure stuff. You think every Free Mason is part of some evil conspiracy, or is a bad person, you’re nuts. It’s the kind of thing where there may be some elements, some influential elements within the group that are not so nice. Which, you could be applying that to Monsanto as well, but in general they are truly trying to make strides. It’s the Board and the Officer’s, and more now that a lot of those names have changed. But, it really was the vision of exactly how much money they could make off this food situation and then doing everything they could to get these GMO products through the FDA, and for ‘blanket regulations and decisions’ to be made about even future GMO products during a ‘deregulation’ heavy time during the Reagan Administration when it wasn’t even as hard to get stuff through to begin with. So, it’s a combination of factors including economic factors. I don’t personally buy into the idea it is something intentional to try to harm the species. I know a lot of people do. But, I do believe they have at least some awareness that they shouldn’t be projecting the amount of certainty of safety that they do; because it’s probably nowhere near the truth. They are ignoring a lot of that for monetary reasons which I think is evil enough. You don’t need to put anything else on them to sort of hold them up as sort of hold them up as the ‘bad guy’. Or, perhaps I’m not being fair. I don’t know. It’s just my opinion.
[Trevor] I would also look at the ‘centralization’ of food, and the ‘centralization’ of power and this is just one means to accomplish this. So, I think there is something a little bit deeper than that, than just a monetary approach, a monetary goal.
[Trevor] They certainly are taking over many, many, aspects of food, and certainly many farms and putting people out of business.
[Ben] They definitely want to create more organization. There’s a lot of discussion and you don’t have to agree with it, but you could at least ‘see’ where they are getting the topics from. Among the elite groups about how the world is really kind of chaotic, despite how many control systems there are, or how many organizational systems there are, and how everything is tracked and catalogued, and analyzed. There still is a lot of chaos and unpredictability in the world. There’s a lot of people, who (for no evil reasons whatsoever) want to fix that. And it so happens that those people can be so focused on creating a solution into that, that they are blinded, guided into a way that sort of ends up harming our liberties or our Freedoms, or something like that. It’s a really, really, complex situation It’s no easier, I imagine than trying to put all the pieces together or the pieces of the Universe together that they miss 97% the first time they tried to do it. This is something that will be a prevalent discussion point in our lives for years and years to come. Presumably we don’t get a magnetic pole reversal and we’re just trying to eat anything we can find.
All of these discussions about what is the perfect thing for us to be eating and all these nuances here and there. You know, here’s something you can’t deny. There are lots of people, blind, oblivious people who eat GMO everyday and are just fine. If we can’t admit that there are those people, then we’re not really trying to be truthful.
[Trevor] When you say fine, they may be looking healthy, but you don’t know what their gut looks like, or what level of progression they’ve gone through as far as harm inside their body. And so, I think that…….
[Billy] If you look at the Alright Show, people who eat organically tend to be in our awakened group here, whereas the people who don’t eat organically tend to in the ‘thug’ related group of our Society. It’s hard to say whether that’s a connection there, but it’s pretty obvious.
[Tony Rango] The fact of the matter is it just doesn’t work. Commercial farming just doesn’t work. You can plant just one crop on a Hugh plot and you can see it’s just constantly -you have to buy more fertilizer or pesticides. It just doesn’t work.
[Ben] They’ve gotten rid of crop rotation in a lot of places. I know it hasn’t completely died, but that’s one of the reasons why the soil looks so ridiculous and nutrient less because they’ve just been planting the same things, blocking the same nutrients over and over again.
[Billy] And see, that was a big No-No back 20/years ago. Crop rotation was of utmost importance. You didn’t plant the same thing there every year. Not only what wasn’t good for the soil, but you wouldn’t make any money doing that.
[Trevor] Well, you couldn’t do it. The bugs would wipe you out and you’d be going against Nature. It’s better to have multiple crops in one plot. You know, have a higher yield, together in unison, helping each other.
[Billy] That’s another weigh in tool, Monsanto. So that’s another thing. Genetics is improved upon – with fertilizers. I say improved upon again, look at the here in Society.
[Ben] Something interesting I’ve learned when I, I saw this guy actually at a Farmer’s Market selling Praying Mantis egg sacks. He said there would be 50-100 or more (I don’t remember, it’s not really important), but essentially, if you don’t have enough birds around to take care of the bugs that are around, and the bugs are really getting at you, just stick this egg sack out in the middle of your crops and let them hatch. Apparently, they won’t eat your crops, but they will eat just about any insect that comes within range.
[Tony Rango] Yah, mostly predatorily type insects. Praying Mantis, they consume, they’re hunters, they consume stink bugs, different aphids and stuff attacking your crops, so very beneficial. But, also lady bugs as well. You can buy them in most seed catalogs, in the back, you can buy them and have them shipped to your house.
[Ben] What’s the benefit of the lady bugs besides them looking kind of cute flying.
[Tony Rango] They’re aphid killers.
[Billy] I saw that to.
[Ben] I had no idea. That’s really interesting. See, that’s the kind of stuff I need to bone up on, seriously.
[Billy] I saw to, did you see where Target lost 133 stores in Canada?
[Ben] No, what happened?
[Billy] Target was not making money. They closed all 133 locations in Canada – it was in the news last week. That’s not good for organics, you know.
[Ben] I assume since they’re making a big push to expand their organics section and they really are making that push. Now even Walmart is doing that as well. Kroger’s been doing it. In a way, all of these big box stores, these businesses that most people in our Community would put in the ‘bad guy’ category, they’re all trying as hard as they can to jump on the organic train.
[Billy] That goes to show you just how important it is to ‘Stand up and be counted’, and speak out, because they are listening, you know. They will follow Society. We make the Rules, we just don’t know it, you know.
[Ben] Yah, we make the Rules with our money.
[Billy] That depends………. It goes where we say it goes, It is totally misleading. Now don’t get me wrong, but we still hold the key, but we just don’t know it.
[Trevor] You aren’t spending those.
[Billy] Yah, a dollar in your pocket is the key, exactly.
[Ben] Somebody wrote something to me that was really poignant. They were saying that your real vote in this Society is with your money, not on the ballet, which I thought really was an intelligent way of boiling it down.
[Tony Rango] Yah, I wrote a comment on your evening video last night that was really similar to that.
[Billy] These people go out and start spending their money on nothing else but organic food, it will absolutely force this to happen. They will have to contend with it. And you see it at Walmart, you know.
[Trevor] One they have to be cautious about Walmart organics, is that it, while it does comply with the USDA’s standards, the only issues it doesn’t address is ‘heavy metals’, and there’s a lot of heavy metals coming from China. That’s where a lot of organics come from for Walmart.
[Billy] There you go. That game is going to be played over, and over, and over. You don’t have any idea how many people Walmart has hired to try to convince people GMO shit may well be organic in some sort of way. It’s incredible, the Corporate Structure.
[Ben] Here’s the thing, and you know Billy, your brining up a really good point. A GMO is just one of the issues. GMO is just genetically modified. You can spray pesticides all day on your organic crops and they’re still organic crops. They’re just laden with pesticides. It’s that mark of organic that’s really important. It helps to see things like no pesticides used.
[Tony Rango] What I like to really see, a friend Allison brought this up, she said, “I’d like to see lettuce growing right in the grocery store.” You know, why couldn’t you do that. Why couldn’t you turn the grocery store, who’s produce department right into an agricultural department, having things growing right there in front of the customers. You’d see your food growing. That’s the epitome of freshness.
[Billy] Yah, that’s an awesome concept.
[Ben] Yah, that’s actually a pretty good concept.
Anyway, speaking of concepts, let’s move on to our next topic. No matter where you look on the internet today you will see something about 2014 was the hottest year ever.
[Billy] Lord, have mercy.
[Ben] Lord, have mercy. Well we sort of let you guys in on the secret a few days ago. This is what we’re talking about. If you will recall – I don’t mean to be that guy here, but, what did I say was going to happen at various times last year? They’re going to somehow spin this into being the warmest temperature on record. Even though the data does not show that at all. The context in which I was saying that was, they would come out and say, oh, that this is the hottest March, this was the hottest October we’ve ever recorded. But, we’d be showing the records day-to-day. And, it showed cold dominating heat. We’d be showing what was happening at the Polar Region, and the fact that the Antarctic is at record highs and the Arctic appears to be recovering a little bit. So things didn’t really jive. And then, we got on January 5th the letter from Dr. John R Christy and Dr. Roy Spencer who are one of the most well known Climatologist and ex-NASA Climatologist that there are. And, they were talking about how 2014 was not the warmest year, and they use far better data collection techniques in my opinion. We had the link to that a couple of days ago in the news. Also, a couple of days ago in the news, we linked to an article from the No Tricks Zone, about this German Meteorologist who’s apparently one of the most well known Meteorologist in Europe, Klaus Hagger – he said something very, very interesting. I’m going to go down here and find it. He said that one of the major changes in temperature can be traced in measurement instrumentation. He said that glass thermometers were replaced by much more sensitive electronic or digital instruments in 1995.
” For eight years I conducted parallel measurements at Lechfeld. The result was that compared to the glass thermometers, the electronic thermometers showed on average a temperature that was 0.9°C warmer. [Almost an entire degree Celsius] Thus we are comparing – even though we are measuring the temperature here – apples and oranges. No one is told that.”
Until now, we just learned that. And another thing that I don’t think we’ve mentioned a lot. We’ve mentioned it in passing a few times. If you’re not, if you’re still trying to sort through this information and figure out what to believe, Google: Urban Heat Island. Do guys know about the Urban Heat Island effect? For those who don’t, this is one of the parts about ‘man-made’ warming that is absolutely true. If you compare the temperature inside of a city, you know like at the center of say, Dallas, TX. to a spot on a farm maybe 30/miles outside the city, even South of the city where it should technically be warmer if anything, it will usually be warmer inside the city. The concrete soaks in and heats up faster during the day; the city itself holds in more heat; there’s lights; there’s cars’ there’s people; there’s apartment buildings; there’s restraints,; there’s this, there’s that. All of these things make the actual Urban areas quite a bit warmer and we call this the Urban Heat Island effect. And, the issue here is that whereas most of the temperature sensors use to be in Rural areas, now, there almost all in Urban areas or at Airports which have literally the exact same problem as an Urban Heat Island would. And, so we have all these things sort of coming together to really play in this situation. Half of these issues help explain why it seems warmer. But, even with those issues, we find that the data still doesn’t match up with what we see as ‘Press Release’ titles. But we can’t really be surprised – we knew this was going to happen. And, this is another reason why we’re starting to come to the conclusion, this is not really a ‘global’ everybody involved information battle anymore. This is a battle to for each and every one of us to just prepare ourselves and realize that the world is just not going to get on the same page. They are not going to spend any of that billions and billions of dollars that allegedly is going to Climate Change Research – they’re not going to spend any of that trying to anticipate, study, or prepare for cold events, or anything like that. That is on us. Boy that really smacks you in the face when you read: ‘Hottest Year Ever”, as you will all day today; which is unfortunate.
[Billy] Yah, go back and touch on the Electronic Thermometers’ , we did some tests a couple years ago here with the electronic thermometers in distilled water, when we were putting electric voltage into distilled water, and I put an electronic probe into the water to measure temperature to show that the hotter the water became, the more conductive it became. What we found was, what the electronic thermometer would go off the chart when you turned current into that water. And, it doesn’t even have to touch it. And then, I took the probe out of the water and put it in the room (the ambient air of the room), then I got my microwave oven bored out and just turned it on in the room with the thermometer, and again the thermometer goes completely off the scale when electricity is applied to the air in the room. And so, extra electric current in the atmosphere will also give a higher reading on the electronic thermometer, whereas the thermal mercury thermometer won’t show that. Just thought I’d throw that in there. This is in some of the ideas. Sure is.
[Ben] That’s fascinating.
[Billy] Oh yah, No doubt, because here we’re sitting with more Cosmic Rays in the Atmosphere, and appearance of the temperatures actually going up when in reality, thermally, it’s not going up.
[Ben] If only somebody would listen to us.
[Billy] This shows the discrepancy in the corona of our star to, to be possibly that, that problem
[Ben] Yah, when you get feet of snow in the Middle East, I mean go try talking to those people about global warming right now. I don’t know if you guys saw Adapt 2030’s latest video, he put it out yesterday. Several feet of snow crossed the Middle East Welcome to the future. I do think places like all up and down Western coastlines of Europe and the Western parts of the Americas, I do think there’s a chance for these stuck lows to keep it warmer there. I don’t think Europe is going to have the drought problem that The United States is enduring and will continue to endure as long as those lows stay there. Always nice to get a little reminder about how on our own we really are. But anyway, Tony, you sent around an interesting article from JoAnn Nova this week. The Sun and Solar Physicist Go Quiet. Do you want to sort of introduce that article?
[Tony] Basically they were saying that just as the Sun is going quiet, the Solar Physicists are not talking much more about the next Solar Cycle when they were talking a lot about this one:) projecting how many Sun spots and output is going to be happening. With this one, they’ve gone quiet. And it was noted it seems to be happening at the same time.
[Ben] I thought that they gave an interesting numbers fact about; while right now no Solar Physicist is really trying to project the next cycle. By this time we already had a ton of actual guess about what this cycle was going to be like. Do you happen to remember what that number was? I might be able to find that really quick, I’ve got the article pulled up here.
[Trevor] I’ll send it to the guys
[Billy] I can remember them saying that Solar Cycle 24 was going to be one of the strongest Solar Cycles we’ve seen.
[Ben] Yah, I’ve got it. So, at this stage during the previous Solar Cycle, there were more than (50)/predictions of Cycle 24. Right now there are almost none for the next Cycle 25, which is really interesting. That’s almost like a side note of this article, because it’s really focused on David Archibald’s tracking of the AP index there, and show how where the Sun is literally as weak as it’s been in a very very long time. Timed up perfectly with the global warming pause I might add. It’s very interesting. I was thinking that since the Solar Physicists who don’t feel like doing their jobs have gone quiet, why don’t we take a stab at it. Ok, let’s not all speak at once. I’ll start by invoking Penn and Livingston’s prediction about Solar Cycle 25 that was actually made back during Solar Cycle 23. They were in the process of making their prediction for Solar Cycle 24, and they also added a little bit in about Solar Cycle 25. As Billy mentioned, there were a ton of predictions that thought that this Solar Cycle 24 was going to be something grand and a big one. Turns out this is a grand disappointment. But one of the folks who sort of saw a shutdown coming; Penn and Livingston of the National Solar Observatory (for those of you who don’t the NSO – they do all the stuff with GONG, including the H-Alpha which is the only up to the minute, updated, real time Solar view, all around the world, all day and that almost never goes down), there is rarely any problems. They were saying that based on the trending activity, we could see Solar Cycle 25 be devoid of Sun spots. Now, I don’t think I’ll can go that far, especially because we can look back to the Maunder Minimum and see that even during the Maunder Minimum, there were some Sun spots. So I don’t think that we could say that we could be devoid of Sun spots. Something like an absolute flat-line of Sunspot activity is quite possible, or at least strongly diminished Sunspot production. Do any of you guys have different thoughts or different predictions? ( About the Sun spots, or any other Solar indices over the next Cycle.)
[Billy] We get it off all the trends. You know, it’s difficult to predict, as many have shown. But I see this trend going down.
[Ben] Yah, it’s hard not to see the trend going down. It’s not just with Sun spots, Solar Flares – both in number and strength; Solar wind. Even when the corona holes were acting strangely in 2007 or 2008, the coronal holes by this point should have returned to strictly the Polar Regions, but that has not really happened a whole lot.
[Billy] You think about balance effects to, you have to think about it; as Solar iridescence weakens, our magnetic fields weakens along with it, which allows more to come in which would give the impression that nothing is really changing – you see what I’m saying? As fields weaken, more Solar rays get into the atmosphere which would give you the idea that it’s not actually getting weaker.
[Ben] Well, that’s why there’s some folks on-line talking about Solar irradiance is going up and …
[Billy] Well I agree with a lot of these people. Because I noticed working out in the field there the Sun did seem to be getting a little whiter than it was…
[Ben] Yah, the Solar irradiance usually only varies on a scale of about .1% and so for it to then basically double, it’s only a change in .1% of intensity. And so, those folks on-line who were talking about, oh, the Solar irradiance is going up, they’re really misunderstanding how this works. The irradiance is going up because our magnetosphere is weakening. And, the irradiance is pumping out regardless of what the Sun spots do. It’s the X-Flare activity; the X-Ray Solar Flare activity, the Power in the Solar Wind, the CME’s – those are the things that really have fluctuations of 10, 100, 1,000 times greater than the fluctuations in the Ultra-violet light. I’m trying to remember, I think it may have been B. Pierce II who now goes by the name ‘Higher Truth’, I think, trying to explain, oh, there’s all this extra Solar irradiance – he completely misunderstands the situation, as much as he misunderstood the movements of the moon, when he thought that the moon was in the wrong place back before he changed his name. Shock to the body, shock to the body.
[Billy] Now, now……
[Ben] Well, hey, he take shots at me all he wants.
[Billy] I know, I agree, there are a few of them like that.
[Ben] For a while I didn’t realize who he really was, then I figured out it was B. Pierce, II, and realized that I was able to safely ignore everything he ever said ever, ever. But he said, that’s another point.
[Ben] This is just………..we saw the invisible Sun spot thing, also pointing towards the magnetic fields weakening on the Sun. The Polar Reversals taking forever, it still probably isn’t complete; the Polar field strength is weakening as well . We saw the article about the Sun’s conveyor belt are slowing down and weakening. There is literally no indices you can look at that doesn’t show the Sun going down. The fact that no Scientist is willing to come out with this prediction is one of the silliest things. Because, in my head I don’t think it’s ever been easier to predict what the next Solar Cycle is going to be. I don’t know if it’s ever been this easy.
[Billy] You’re absolutely right, looking back on the data, we should have been able to predict it easily.
[Ben] And, of course, there are some Scientists who are predicting it. John Casey talks about this, but he doesn’t qualify as a Solar Physicist I suppose. Penn and Livingston mentioned it. Arnob R. Chowdhury said the same thing, they should have counted him in this as well. There are some who discuss it. David Hathaway, all the Scientists I named in Climate #3
[Billy] Yah, if you look back at these Scientist to and see where they actually did do these predictions was around 2009 when we had the Sun spot quiet here – that we went almost a year without a Sun spot there. 2008-09, that’s when they did notice it. Like John Casey and the others. I think they had suspicion before that, but as well as being able to predict at that point – yah it was like, absolute, no question about it; this is a drop in Sun spots – we haven’t in about 200 years
[Ben] Very interesting stuff. I feel fairly confident. I don’t even feel that I’m putting myself out there. I feel that we can fairly predict that the Sun’s going to continue this. It’s only a matter of time. This shit should literally happen any day now, that the Sun should really start sliding back into the 11/year, the part of the 11/year cycle where it’s Sun spot activity is diminished. And, it’s Polar field’s strength, actually comes back a bit. It actually comes down. This is a point I’ve been trying to make as much as I can when I talk about the Solar Polar fields. We don’t need to wait until the start of the next “Sun spot maximum” to figure out how it’s going to go. We can see during this coming Sun Spot Minimum which is the Solar Polar field Maximum how those maximum fields are reacting – how strong do they get? Are they continuing the weakening trend, and so, a few years before the Sun spots even begin to come back at all, we should have a very clear picture of what the next Sun spot Maximum should look like. That has been one of the most fruitful aspects of investigating the Solar Polar Fields is realizing that you can tell – you don’t have to wait until the Sun spots to see how bad of a Maximum you’re going to have . You really can look at the Polar Fields and boy, it’s good to have Stanford, even if they do stay about five weeks behind.
[Billy] Yah, that and the duration we’re suppose to reach the Maximum in 2012, according to all that prediction of this Cycle, and of course we haven’t, we’re still in the middle of it now, the Poles haven’t completely flipped, 2/years later and we’re still at what it’s suppose to be Solar Maximum. But of course, the predictions back in 2008 was when we were going into the low, Solar Sun spot activity and they expected it to rise almost immediately and go into this 24/Cycle which is going to be phenomenal, yet the Sun spots dropped off in 2008 again and they didn’t come back for over a year which set the whole cycle off an entire year before it picked up and of course it was an absolute dud. But, again, that was a year off however this dud cycle has also prolonged itself another year because we’re two years into Maximum by now.
[Ben] And, what’s interesting is, in the record books, the way they keep them, this won’t even go down as much of a dud as it really is because we did have so many times where there was a ton of Sun spots on the disc. If you actually go to NASA’s Marshall’s Space Flight Center and you look up the current track of Sun spots, you’ll see that this second peak – because you know we’re in the double peaked Maximum. This second peak is actually kind of middle of the road in terms of Sun spot number. But it’s very misleading because we haven’t had any of Solar Flares that we expect. I’ve said this many times, but I’ll run through it again. We should be getting half a dozen to a dozen X10 Solar Flares or more. The largest of this entire cycle didn’t even hit X7. We have had forty some X Solar Flares total, we should be having 175 per cycle. We are just so far beneath where we should be. And so, because they don’t keep track of the Solar cycle in that way, they just go by the Sun spots, yah this would appear to be somewhat measly Solar cycle, they’re not even going to be able to capture how much of a dud it really was.
[Billy] You’re right, and again also to that even with the weaker cycle of Sun spots, we’ve recorded some of the largest Sun spots – you know volume wise.
[Ben] You’re right, and they still weren’t able to produce much of anything.
[Tony Rango] And that’s a good indicator to. I think we’ll see more of that Solar Cycle 25 larger spots, fewer spots. That should be a good sign for Grand Minimum.
[Ben] Yah, I would tend to agree with that. As always, we’ll keep our eye on it. Be safe everyone.